Woo! Rogues get a legendary weapon – a dagger, no less – in Patch 4.3! And there’s a really neat quest line! And – yes – they give you wings! Speaking as a long-time rogue player, I’m really, really excited. And I’ve spent the last day or so figuring out everything I can about the Fangs of the Father, as they’re called – how hard it’ll be to get them, whether I can do it in LFR or whether it’s a guild raid only job, whether the proc’s as good as it looks, whether the intermediate epic daggers you can get are worth it (hint – yes, they definitely are), what the stat balance is like. Plus, I’ve now updated with Live details, including how to do the infamously hard Assassinate Creed quest where you assassinate Hiram Creed, a 2 million HP boss, on your own!
It took a while. And so, here’s the guide to everything you might want to know about the Rogue’s finest hour in 4.3…
Updated 16th December.
- How good are the legendary daggers and their proc?
- What are the stats on the daggers?
- How do I start the quest chain?
- Can I do the quest via Looking For Raid? Do I need Heroic difficulty for any of it?
- The Creed quest is REALLY hard! How do I do it?
- How long will it take to get the Legendary Daggers?
- Will I have to respec to get the best out of the Fangs of the Father?
- Are the daggers any good for a Combat Rogue?
- How much do I have to do to get the epic daggers?
- How much better are the epic daggers than the drops from Dragon Soul?
- How do I get wings?
- What’s the storyline for the Legendary quest chain, and how many parts is it in?
How good are the Fangs of the Father for Combat, Assassination and Subtlety, and how good’s their proc / set bonus?
TL:DR version: they’re ridonculously good. Really, stupidly, epicly good. There’s no question that they’re going to be better than any other weapon for a Rogue of all specs. In stat terms alone they’re better than any other weapon, without considering their proc (of which, more below), which puts them well past anything that will be available before Mists of Pandaria.
The Stage 2 epic daggers, the Sleeper and the Dreamer, that you get half-way through the legendary quest chain are already respectively second-best and best in slot for mainhand and offhand daggers in Patch 4.3, according to Shadowpanther’s PvE charts, and the legendaries themselves have much higher stats than those.
As for the set bonus: the Fangs of the Father set bonus, as revealed on Battle.net a while ago, is “Your melee attacks have a chance to grant Shadows of the Destroyer, increasing your Agility by 17, stacking up to 50 times. Each application past 30 grants an increasing chance to trigger Fury of the Destroyer. When triggered, this consumes all applications of Shadows of the Destroyer, immediately granting 5 combo points and cause your finishing moves to generate 5 combo points. Lasts 6 sec.”
Further testing of the proc on the PTR has revealed a few details about how it works in practise. The stacking buff appears to stack at different rates for different specs: fastest for Subtlety, then a bit slower for Assassination, then slower still for Combat. However, that’s offset by the varying utility of the proc, particularly the combo point proc. Thanks to the Restless Blades talent, Combat will get a huge bonus from this proc – with 4 or 5 free 5-point finishers inside the proc time and the Restless Blades talent, the proc will effectively drop the cooldowns of Adrenaline Rush and Killing Spree by 40 or 50 sec every time it goes off.
Subtlety gets less use from the proc, but more use from the Agility, thanks to Subtlety’s HUGE reliance on Agility as a stat, whilst Assassination lands somewhere in the middle, with Envenom simply delivering an absolutely massive damage spike.
Will I have to respec to get the best out of the Fangs of the Father?
Really not. Blizzard have been very careful to balance the daggers equally for all specs, including Subtlety. Combat may end up being slightly ahead thanks to the extreme power of the proc, but we’ll have to wait for final tests to be sure.
What are the stats on the Maw of Oblivion, Jaws of Retribution, and Fangs of the Father?
The quest line for the legendary daggers rewards two increasingly powerful epic daggers before the final Fangs of the Father. Each of them on their own is well worth getting – within the top 5 or 6 weapons for Assassination and Subtlety, and bloody good for Combat too.
Stats for all three sets of daggers, plus a normal-drop comparison:
|Dagger name||DPS||Agility||Hit rating||Expertise||Mastery||Haste||Critical Strike||Sockets|
|Fear (Mainhand epic dagger from Jaws of Retribution, the first stage)||659||188||100||None||None||102||108||1 Red|
|The Sleeper (Mainhand epic dagger from Maw of Oblivion, the second stage)||716||207||109||None||None||111||117||1 Red|
|Golad, Twilight of Aspects (Legendary mainhand)||786||229||148||None||None||150||156||1 Red|
|Blade of the Unmaker (Drop from normal Dragon Soul, last boss)||696||220||None||None||147||147||None||None|
|Dagger name||DPS||Agility||Hit rating||Expertise||Mastery||Haste||Critical Strike||Sockets|
|Vengeance (Offhand epic dagger from Jaws of Retribution, the first stage)||659||188||None||101||102||106||None||1 Red|
|The Dreamer (Offhand epic dagger from Maw of Oblivion, the second stage)||716||207||None||110||112||115||None||1 Red|
|Tiriosh, Nightmare of Ages (Offhand Legendary dagger)||786||229||None||149||150||154||None||1 Red|
|Electrowing Dagger (drop from Normal Hagara, 4th boss of Dragon Soul)||659||188||None||None||117||138||None||1 Red|
Beyond these stats, it’s also worth remembering that they have an increasingly powerful proc ability – Jaws of Retribution grants 2 Agi, stacking up to 50 times (so, likely +100 AGI on many fights with a pretty decent uptime), Maw of Oblivion grants 5 AGI stacking up to 50 times (250 AGI!), and the full Fangs of the Father grants the frankly ludicrous 17 AGI stacking up to 50 times (so that’s a potential maximum of, wait for it, 850 AGI), with the additional effect I talked about above .
Are the daggers usable for a Combat Rogue?
Short version: yes. Long version: YEEEEEEEEESSS.
All versions of the Legendary Daggers also have the following bonus: “Equip: Increases the damage dealt by Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike by 45%.”.
Given that Sinister Strike and Revealing Strike both do damage based on weapon damage, which is the main reason to use weapons other than daggers as Combat, this bonus offsets that fact – arguably slightly more than offsets it, in fact, given that on 44.44% damage increase would put them on par with a 2.6 speed weapon. This makes the Legendaries Best in Slot for Combat Rogues too.
How much will I have to do to get the Jaws of Retribution and Maw of Oblivion epic daggers?
The epic daggers, particularly the first tier, appear to be surprisingly easy to get – meaning that any rogue who has managed to clear Dragon Soul Normal will already be wielding close to best in slot weapons. Expect to see some nice DPS numbers from rogues in this patch!
How to get Jaws of Retribution
To get the Jaws of Retribution (that’s Fear and Vengeance, the pair of iLevel 397 daggers), you’ll need to get the quest “Proving Your Worth” inside the new Dragon Soul raid, pickpocket Hagara, the fourth boss of Dragon Soul, on Normal or higher difficulty, and complete the ensuing quest chain.. Unfortunately, you can’t get the pickpocket item from the Looking for Raid version of the raid.
While the trash before Hagara does need to be cleared for you to pickpocket her, it’s still possible to do this quest without your own raid group being at Hagara yet. You’ll need to talk to a raid leader of a raid that does routinely get to her, and ask if they can – very briefly – invite you once they’ve cleared the trash before Hagara. Most raids will happily exchange 5 minutes of their time for a payment of a few thousand gold!
Once you’re in, you’ll need to pick up the quest from the bottom of Wyrmrest Temple, then take the Red Dragon up to the top. Enter the portal to Eye of Eternity, stealth, sneak behind Hagara and pickpocket, then hand the quest back in at the bottom of the temple. It’s that easy!
(The ensuing solo quests aren’t that easy – see below.)
The quest chain itself should be doable for any rogue, involving using some rogue skills to infiltrate Ravenholdt Manor and later on the ruins of Gilneas. There are a couple of gotchas, though.
Firstly, you’ll also need 10,000 gold to pay for the second stage of the quest chain. Ouch. Still, the phrase “money can’t buy gear this good” springs to mind…
Secondly, you’ll need complete a difficulty stealth challenge, then kill a tough NPC solo as part of the Assassinate Creed quest. If you’re having trouble on this quest, we have some tips below – however, it’s one of the most fun quest lines for a rogue ever, so I’d encourage you to try it on your own and only look for tips if you get seriously stuck!
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How to get Maw of Oblivion
Getting the Maw of Oblivion, which is a significant upgrade to iLevel 403 daggers (which are already Best In Slot for some specs), will be significantly harder.
First, you’ll need to collect 333 Shadowy Gems from bosses in the Dragon Soul raid. This is the traditional “Now collect loads of stuff” segment of the legendary quest line, and as usual, it’s a pretty major roadblock. Early initial reports say that each boss drops between 4 and 10 Shadowy Gems per Elementium Gem Cluster, with 10-man bosses dropping 1 Cluster, and 25-man bosses dropping two. That means that on average, assuming you’re the only rogue in a 10-man guild collecting the Gems, you’ll need to clear 47 Dragon Soul bosses to get enough gems. (More on how long this will take in How long will it take to get the legendary daggers , below.)
Then, you’ll need to defeat Nalice, the ambassador of the Black Dragonflight, in Karazhan. There’s no information on how hard this fight will be, as it hasn’t been tested on the PTR as far as I can tell, but expect the difficulty to be “very”.
Once you’ve done those two things, you can return the Vial of Black Dragonblood that you get to Prince Wrathion, the questgiver, and get the upgraded daggers.
Are the epic daggers better than the drops from Dragon Soul?
The first-stage epic mainhand dagger, Fear, is not quite as good as the Blade of the Unmaker, the dagger that drops from the Madness of Deathwing at the end of Dragon Soul on Normal difficulty. However, the offhand, Vengeance, is better than any non-Heroic drop. The combined set bonus from the two daggers is likely to make them better as a pair than any other pair of daggers available on Normal difficulty.
The second-stage weapons are similar – The Sleeper is not quite as good as the Heroic version of the Blade of the Unmaker, but The Dreamer is best in slot aside from the legendaries. Again, once you have both, it’s likely they are Best In Slot until you get the legendary daggers.
All of this applies for Combat too. The daggers’ “Weighted Blades” buff makes them as good as a sword or axe for Combat.
Which versions of the daggers give me wings, and how do I get them?
The Legendary Daggers, Fangs of the Father, have an on-use effect that gives you slowfall and cool dragon/demon type wings. However, that’s a bonus that only comes with the full legendaries, not the pre-legendary epics.
How do I start the legendary dagger quest line?
It’s pretty easy – just pick up Proving Your Worth , a quest from Lord Afrasastrasz inside the Dragon Soul raid. This is only possible on Normal difficulty.
Once you’ve done that, you’ll have to wait until your guild or raid can clear up to Hagara, boss #4 in the Dragon Soul raid, at which point you can pickpocket her and complete this first quest, starting off the solo chain.
Can I do the Legendary Dagger quest chain using Raid Finder raids? Does any of the chain need to be done on Heroic?
None of the Legendary dagger quest chain will be completable using the Raid Finder. You can’t pickpocket the ring off Hagara in LFR, and Elementium Gem Clusters don’t drop from LFR bosses. (And just as well too – can you imagine the loot drama?)
On the upside, none of the quests require Heroic mode, either, although several of the solo fights are likely to be very hard.
Aaargh! The “Assassinate Creed” quest is impossible! How do I stealth through all those mobs and kill Hiram Creed?
If you’re getting stuck on this quest, which is at the same time one of the best and one of the hardest quests rogues have ever faced, here are some tips!
Stealthing through Gilneas: You’ll need to use three abilities in total: Vanish, Distract and of course Stealth. THERE IS NO ONE RIGHT WAY TO DO THIS QUEST. No matter what guides may tell you, there are multiple routes you can take through the Gilnean streets – personally I prefer to go forward from the starting area and through the training square, but you can go via the river if you prefer. Distract is vital for the latter stage of this quest – whilst mobs are Distracted away from you, their detection range behind themselves is much reduced. That’s how you get past the big groups of Gilneans.
Killing Creed: You can do this quest as any spec, but some people report having an easier time as Combat. Personally, I did it as Assassination. Put all your defensive and mitigation abilities on your bars before you start – Dismantle, Combat Readiness, Evasion, all stuns. (Don’t use Vanish, though!). You’ll also need to be around iLevel 370 at least, and to be using a flask, have Potions of the Tol’vir (ideally) and be using buff food.
The most important things to do are keep Recuperate running (it’s timed, so you don’t need to worry about how many combo points you use on it – higher CP doesn’t give you a more powerful heal), interrupt Blackhowl’s Will and get out of Consuming Darkness – move as soon as he starts casting, or interrupt if you have one spare. Get him to Phase 2 as fast as possible – his Shadow Breath ability actually makes him easier to kill by stopping him attacking for a few seconds.
Further tips, in no particular order: Glyphed Blind is astonishingly powerful for this fight, as it gives you a huge recuperation time. Try to stun him as often as possible and cycle all cooldowns, mitigation and offensive. Watch out for the Fence of Death – there’s a fence to his left when he starts that it’s easy to get stuck on. When he casts Shadow Breath, dodge the cone and stab him lots!
How long will it take me to get the Legendary Daggers?
We don’t know exactly how long it will take to aquire the Legendaries, but we can make some educated guesses.
First, you’ll have to clear to Hagara, the fourth boss in Demon Soul, pickpocket her, and take the ring off to be “charged” – assuming you’re in a high-powered guild, you’re likely to be able to do all this within a week or so. The ring takes 12 hours to charge, but that’s nothing in the grand scheme of things.
Then, you need to collect 333 Shadowy Gems. At a drop rate of, on average, 7 per boss, you’ll need to clear 47 Dragon Soul bosses in 10-man on average to get this. If you’re doing 25-man raiding and you’re the only rogue collecting the gems, you’ll need less time than that – 24 bosses on average. Assuming a full clear every week, on average that will take 6 weeks on Normal / 10-man or 3 weeks on Normal / 25-man – but it could also take as little as 5 weeks on Normal / 10 man or as much as 11 wqeeks on Normal/10 if you were spectacularly unlucky.
After that, assuming you breeze through the ensuing solo kill quests, you’ll need to collect 60 Elementium Gem Clusters – which will take 60 boss kills in Dragon Soul on 10-man and 30 on 25-man, so another 8 weeks on 10-man and 4 weeks on 25-man.
After that, all you need to do is be part of a raid that kills Deathwing. It’s safe to assume your raid will be able to do that by now, and thanks to the numbers involved, you’ll be able to do it the same week as you get your final Elementium Gem Cluster.
All told, if you’re the only rogue in a 25-man raid team aiming to get the Legendary, you’ll get it approximately 7-8 weeks after your raid can manage full clears of Normal Dragon Soul. So, expect to see Legendaries starting to pop up around mid-January.
Interestingly, that’s about the same timeframe there was for the last legendary, Tarecgosa – the first staves started popping up around the 9th of August, approximately 2 months after Patch 4.2.
What’s the story behind the Legendary Dagger, and how many parts is it in?
Warning! Spoilers ahead!
The quest chain for the Rogue legendary is pretty long: 13 parts in all, including two tough solo fights and two lengthy collection quests within the Dragon Soul raid, plus a number of stealth challenges.
The storyline starts with the Dragonflights intercepting a coded message about the remaining Black Dragonflight egg, which they need you to decode using a decoder ring you steal from Hagara the Stormbinder. Once you decode it, you discover that the rogues of Ravenholdt Manor (who have been pretty quiet since Vanilla) are involved in the theft in some way, and you’re sent in there to out-stealth the rogues and find out what’s going on.
Once you’re in there, you discover something pretty surprising – the egg has hatched, and the dragon that was inside it, Wrathion, has no intention of being anyone else’s puppet – indeed, he seems to have taken Ravenholdt over. He sends the Red Dragonflight member who was with you back to the other dragons as a warning to stay away from him, and enlists you to help him kill the remaining, hidden members of the Black Dragonflight who were influenced by Deathwing, his father.
The first one of those is called Creed, and is in hiding in Gilneas, having convinced some Gilnean humans that he can help them take their land back. Wrathion sends you to assassinate him.
Once you slip past the Gilneans (now infected with Black Dragonflight blood) and assassinate Creed (nice “Assassin’s Creed” reference there), you return to Wrathion, and he rewards you with Fear and Vengeance, the two daggers that will turn into your Legendary daggers. Then, he sends you off to collect Shadowy Gems from the battle near Wyrmrest Temple (AKA Dragon Soul).
Having done that, he then sends you on to assassinate the final Black Dragonflight member, Nalice (whom you may remember from Wyrmrest Temple in Wrath). She’s laired beneath Karazhan. From here on in the quest storyline gets a bit vague – this far into the questline doesn’t appear to have been tested much on the PTR – but you end up taking a vial of her blood back to Wrathion.
From there, he sends you to kill his father – saying that “his darkness will consume the world if he is not stopped”. He asks you to bring a fragment of his armour back, with which “the reward I give you will be without equal”.
The reward, of course, is your legendary daggers.
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