50 responses

  1. El
    October 23, 2011

    4.3 will likely go live at the end of November, almost exactly 2 years after 3.3. However hard they try, WoW expansions take approximately 2 years, plus or minus a few months. If Mists of Pandaria goes live before September/October 2012, I’ll be amazed.

    The annual pass is one way of holding onto subscribers during the fallow months. For another, look to the Darkmoon Faire: The assumption is that it will still be 1 week each month, but with reward that take several months to gain. Play one week/month, still billed monthly.

    Ironically, WoW actually needs more anti-content, not content. Anti-content are elements of the game that players fall back on in between patches and expansions. Fishing was one; you can probably think of others. This is never headline-grabbing stuff; but it keeps players in the game months longer than otherwise. There’s some appreciation of the need for anti-content in Mists of Pandaria – references to giving players “more things to do at 90″ – but it’s hard to judge how much weight such features will be given.

  2. Fidjit
    October 23, 2011

    Definitely agree with your cynical thought that MoP is a good year (or close to it) away and that the 12-month sub plan is to lock people in for that long wait between 4.3 and 5.0.

    It’s very devious, but it’s also very clever. In the next 12 months Blizzard has TOR launching, which is probably it’s biggest competition yet, and GW2 might be out during those 12 months as well. Meanwhile, WoW is in a rut waiting for the next expansion. Blizzard knows that during that period people will want to cancel their subs and go try out the new games in town.

    Now it doesn’t matter if they stop playing and go to TOR or GW2 for a few months, because they’ll be paying for WoW regardless. Then by the time the new-game shine has worn off Blizzard will release MoP.

  3. Stormy
    October 23, 2011

    I don’t necessarily agree with every big decision Blizzard’s ever made (goblin starting area, I’m lookin’ at you) and I’m not a Blizzard fanboy by any means, but I’ll give Blizzard credit for one thing: making the last content patch of the already-disastrous Cataclysm expansion last from November 2011 to late 2012 would be absolutely suicidal, and Blizzard knows it.

  4. Cuer
    October 23, 2011

    After the base design decisions are done, most time-intensive area of any expansion development is the art. As seen by the fact that the entire starting area is already done, the new race and class are very far along, and the many videos going through zones, most of the art for Mists of Pandaria is already done. Heck, the art could be done for all the dungeons and first 3 raids; there were obviously other areas and dungeons they could have talked about, but didn’t want to for PR purposes.

    Beyond the art, it was mentioned in one of the design panels that the first 2-3 zones in Pandaria itself are already full of quests that they’re playing in-house. So while they may not officially be in alpha (it would be odd if they were in alpha, when 4.3 still on the PTR) they’re clearly testing it out, and moving forward at a more rapid pace than previous expansions.

    It has always been a bad idea to bet on Blizzard development going quickly, but it does seem like they’re speeding up the process here, and are certainly much farther along in the core development of the expansion than they have been for any of the previous expansions at the comparable Blizzcon announcements.

    Blizzard is pushing hard to get on an 18-month development cycle for expansions, instead of the 24-month cycle seen previously. They cut out an entire tier of content in Cataclysm to make this happen. If 4.3 is out before the end of the year, which is probable, then Mists of Pandaria should be landing in June-July 2012.

  5. Damon
    October 23, 2011

    The funniest thing about all this is it’s becoming quite apparent that 80-85 and 85-90 were originally one expansion. Split to allow focus to shift to other games, and extend out the content as much as possible.

  6. Kascade
    October 23, 2011

    Well we need to remember that time when WoW lost all those subscribers earlier this year ?

    Their response ? “We need to release content faster”.

    So maybe that’s what blizz is trying to do. Maybe they are trying to speed up the release of pandaria to keep their fan-base entertained.

  7. Craig
    October 24, 2011

    I think a Q4 2012 release is most likely, but I don’t think that will be disastrous, even if there is no new major content patch between now and then. They may lose subscribers in droves, but so what? They’ll all come crawling back when Pandaria launches, and WoW isn’t in any danger of going belly up in the mean-time. Hell, as insanely profitable as this game is, they could lose half their subscription base and still stay afloat.

    • James
      February 1, 2012

      You are stating opinion right?
      I mean you have no way to determine a whole slew of players quitting a game and coming back do you? Other than a few shallow guildies you know quitting and coming back has zero relevance on a surmountable populous that has quit. Myself included, i have no desire to come back. All the things i liked about the game are gone, and the theme of WoW and it’s playability have diminished. There’s no reason for me to come back as i am sure other people know this too and feel the same way.
      it is possible for people in droves to move on with their lives dude …. I know a lot of players feel like you and assume everyone feels as they do.. Wrong.

      • @james
        April 27, 2012

        If you have no interest in coming back then why are reading up on the new expansion. The expansion will bring back some subscribers but not all. If anything this is going to hopefully balance out the game again like the original WoW did

  8. Craig
    October 24, 2011

    @Damon – I don’t believe that. There was just as much new content in Cataclysm at launch as there was for the first two expansions.

  9. Robert
    October 24, 2011

    My personal opinion (I’m not a game designer but I do know a bit about psychology) is that if Blizz does lock people into the sub. They are going to alienate a lot of people who like their game and like how they make the game. Personally if they do have a content drought and people are locked in, they are going to lose a lot of people in the long run.
    I do agree that this scenario is very likely. Blizzard has no motivation to just hand out a super cool looking mount, a free game, and a beta access key because they love us! Honestly, its too good to be true, but its very devious for them to make us pay 280 bucks for nothing. I’m hoping to god that they didn’t take this path but if they did I am very disappointed. It is a very clever move, though.
    Again, from what all the videos, art, schematics, and pictures, it does look like Blizzard is a lot farther ahead than they were releasing Cata. Anyway, even if we are looking at a Q4 the people who did lock themselves in will get to play it a few months earlier! 😀

  10. Goodmongo
    October 24, 2011

    I think Blizz would like to release in June of 2012. But I doubt if they can release then. Personally, the best bet is a late August or early September release. Here are some reasons for it.

    1) Sales and play during the summer months are lower than other times of the year. Why risk negative news about poor sales that will feed the negative news about pandas.

    2) There is a major rewrok of talents and balancing not to mention a whole new class. Couple this with the stat devaluation that they mentioned and all abilities need to be readjusted for both PvE and PvP. That is a lot of work or they risk having too many classes out of balance.

    3) People are already split over the pandas. Those that hate the idea won’t take the 12 month deal. Those that love it will. So the risk in losing more people by waiting is dimished because you already lost those people by going the panda route.

    4) I think Blizz is banking on making Deathwing pretty hard. In other words it might take 5 or 6 months for the average guild to kill it. So we are talking about may before you see any real numbers of guilds killing DW. Then the beta starts in late June which leads me to #5.

    5) After DW you get your beta invite per the 12 month deal. This was about the same time that WotLK betas started. That keeps thos einterested till late September which lets them start the pre events to get people interested.

    So in my opinion the timeline for an October release fits exactly what they have been doing. And for those that like ewoks (eh sorry pandas) they will gladly wait and be entertained by the beta invite anyway.

  11. pudge pudgerton
    October 25, 2011

    wow to hear about another expantion already i think blizz realized they screwed them selfs with cata and are trying to hurry up and correct that mistake..i dont know anyone that still plays and i did play up till 6 months ago about 3 months after my whole guild stopped…have been enjoying rift since i might check this out but not sure will have to wait to see if they bring any individualism back to the toons other than just what gear you have it would be nice to have my arcane fire mage back

  12. Velidra
    October 25, 2011

    I think your estimate is far far off. Cataclysm took such a long time for 2 reasons. The content overhaul for the old world, and most importantly not one, but 2 talent revamps.

    You have to remember that they actually took the orginal talent revamp to late alpha/early beta (if my memory serves me correctly). They then had to take developers of other parts of cataclysm and put them onto the second talent revamp.

    If anything I have to say its going to be sooner than people are expecting.

  13. DialN4Ninja
    October 25, 2011

    Something that popped into my head after reading was what if the showcase at Blizzard was just what they showed us? Couldn’t there be more behind the scenes that for some reason they didn’t to show? Perhaps to build curiosity, leaving players yearning to play to explore, instead of knowing everything before it even goes live?

    Just my $0.02.

  14. Hugh Hancock
    October 25, 2011

    @DialN4Ninja – That’s a definite possibility. It’d be a bold move, though – with SWTOR breathing down their neck, my personal opinion is they’re showing anything they possibly can to make it look like MoP will be genuine competition.

  15. Wowest studios
    October 25, 2011

    I love The idea of kung- fu panda and pokémon. well The pandas is natural race.. So i wounder: can pandas go pvp ?

  16. Jeremy
    October 26, 2011

    It will be released on 12/31/2012
    look on top of the list you will see mists of pandaria and under the nameit is written release date 12/31/2012

  17. Hugh Hancock
    October 26, 2011

    @Jeremy – Unfortunately it’s been shown time and time again that the dates games retailers list are often best-guess or even completely made up! So this probably isn’t a reliable indication.

    Apart from anything else, it’s pretty unlikely any games publisher would choose to release a game on New Year’s Eve…

  18. Ian
    October 29, 2011

    Just a theory on this:

    With the advent of MoP, Blizz appears to have two distinct demographics to cater for when it comes to game style.

    Group A are mostly late-teenage to adult, largely or entirely in control of their own income, and tend to enjoy more complex & tricky games, in coherent settings with a dark or realistic theme.

    Group B are mostly younger, have very limited control of their incomes, and enjoy relatively accessible and simplistic game design, in a visually appealing and simple, largely comedic and pop-culture-referential setting.

    Group B will love MoP. For the game design, the complexity is being dialed down to the point where you’d expect to see it on a console. For the setting, we’re getting comedy chubby animal-people, kung-fu silliness, bright primary colours, endless pop-culture references and pokemon. Group A will likely despise it with a burning hatred.

    So, let’s say Blizzard are in fact much closer to releasing MoP than some people have suggested. Say, Q2 or Q3 2012. It’s not that a content drought is going to destroy half their player-base, but that Group A are going to leave in droves when it becomes apparent that MoP was entirely designed for six-year-olds and not for them. There is some limited content that’ll please Group A, but it’ll take them a while to find it amid the pokemon and pandas.

    Blizzard accordingly take advantage of Group A’s income control by offering to give them stuff that fits their preferences (Diablo 3, a much more grimdark version of the Sparklepony) in exchange for locking them into subscribing to a game that they wouldn’t otherwise continue to play. And Group A can always console themselves by saying that they got Diablo 3 free with it.

    Then here comes the real kicker: Blizz then release Diablo 3 with a special edition that contains so much good stuff (extra content and suchlike) that a sizeable chunk of Group A mostly buy the special edition despite having essentially forked out for D3 already.

    So, Blizzard cash in on a much younger audience than they’ve previously been able to cater for, and lock their older audience in for the next year – by which time they’ll be looking at funnelling that older audience into Titan anyway.

    Just my random thoughts on the matter on a slow Saturday morning. This making any sense?

  19. Hugh Hancock
    October 29, 2011

    @Ian – That’s a very interesting piece of analysis, and does indeed provide an alternative, plausible explanation. I’m particularly keen on your “D3 collector’s edition” theory – that sounds very likely indeed.

    Curious to hear what everyone else thinks about Ian’s ideas!

  20. Marvin
    October 30, 2011

    So,the Idea of Ian is very interesting,and true. But i think Blizzard is smart. Blizzard is working for Group A and Group B , they´re making something like…like….a funny Zombie-Shooter. It´s dark,and it has much gore,but its funny too! So,thats like I think MoP will look like. Funny,(with Pandas,Pokemons and such funny stuff) but also a little bit dark,with a Story and a maybe dark History. So,what can I say? I Think it would be PERFECT! :)

    Sorry for my bad English.

  21. DAffy
    October 31, 2011

    No more expansions please!After this shitty expansion what will be? Might of the Murlocs?…cmmon….Blizzard killed wow with this…ehmm…killed twice after cataclysm.

  22. Graham
    October 31, 2011

    I agree… If you are saying BLIZZARD ARE HOLLOW, SOULESS SHELLS OF WHAT THEY ONCE WERE… They have MILLIONS of £$ and earn more than 8 million £$ a day… They have become GREEDY… they are the DEVIL… (sign up for a year… ONT YOU DARE PLAY SW:TOR OR GW2… if you do, be prepared to GO TO HELL) basically they are saying “if we cant keep you, we will shut up shop… all our workers have enough money to last them 100 lifetimes… why should we care about the ants any more!?”
    That being said “I LOVE YOU BLIZZARD!”

  23. Hugh Hancock
    October 31, 2011

    @Graham – See http://www.mmomeltingpot.com/2011/10/the-passion-shines-through-lore-panel-reactions-blizzcon-2011/ .

    I think that Blizzard are in a tough spot, I think they may be making some decisions that are dubious both on ethical and creative grounds (or they might not be), and I think that the people within the company are under a hell of a lot of pressure right now. But I don’t for one second believe they’ve completely stopped caring.

  24. Graham
    October 31, 2011

    @Hugh Hancock
    Thank you… I know what you are talking about… thats why i added the… “I LOVE YOU BLIZZARD!!!” at the end… because after all the trolling… THEY ARE AWSUMLY AMAZING… they are wonderfull… they care deeply about the game etc… BUT…
    They do, quite occasionally make a WRONG move… in my oppinion they SOLD THEMSELVES OUT with the dawning of cataclysim… a lot of things have been ruind now because of it… etc etc *WHINE, WHINE, WHINE* but, i will probably keep playing UNTILL the do *SHUT UP SHOP* :) GO BLIZZ GO

    • Alec
      April 27, 2012



  25. Ben
    October 31, 2011

    There was a year or so between 3.3 and Cataclysm. I don’t see why the same year gap again would be catastrophic for Blizzard. It’s unlikely to even put much of a dent in at all. You’ll get some people moaning on the forums, some kind of 4.3.5 that introduces new content while pretending it’s not a new patch, and then away we go.

    They did announce they were trying to shift it to 18 month releases. But that always seemed to tight to me. Personally, I’d rather have the long gap here and get what I feel is value for money out of MoP.

  26. Terry
    November 1, 2011

    i reckon it will be released nov/dec 2012 :)

  27. Graham
    November 1, 2011

    The thing that pees me off the most with Blizzard, is the fact that they *release the Mention* of a new release BEFORE they are even 3rd of the way through… HOW MANY OTHER GAME DEVELOPERS DO THIS?… a few but… NOT THAT MANNY
    If Blizz were to SHUT UP about things until they were about, say…. 6 months away then that would serve them better…

    Terry, I agree… They dont ask you to sign up for a WHOLE DAMN YEAR, unless the product is at LEAST a year away.

  28. Sonadi
    November 2, 2011

    Blizz has another problem. Star Wars the Old Republic MMORPG is coming out soon and it looks fantastic and alot of people are going to try it. People are already bored with WoW Cata, if they don’t release something soon they will see their numbers drop even more drastically like Everquest did when WoW was released.

    • bandit
      March 1, 2012

      this is my reason regarding why I personally quit wow
      the game went compleatly stale with Cataclism I was guild master of a guild when cata came out I lost nearly everyone from the guild decided enough was enough and said goodbye to wow. Instances wernt fun anymore Look for group was, my DPS is bigger than yours competition and darn the tank or heals, wasnt fun anymore our guild was just starting to raid when Cata came out LFg killed guilds I now that talking to other Guild masters wasnt one guild there were many.

      Then Rift came around and started playing that and now SWTOR is out and im from Down under OUR OWN SERVERS HA (Bliz you failed us downunder why can other companies do what you just wont do) Im sorry about loosing many people from southern hemisphere it’s not our fault 1,000,000+people wanted servers in oceanic area (which means not in the US branded Oceanic) sorry but under 60 ping is much better than nearly 400+ ping anyday. So if Blizz Listerned there would be many more playing but never will I return to wow. SWTOR is now my main game I cant come back to a company who stone walled Oceanic region just look up on the oceanic Forums. O yea dont worry the Forum master just delites the posts every day. I made up many posts just to see them pulled off next day. SWTOR servers based just outside of Sydney the whole Southern Region under 100 ping (here is the challenge) try beating that and stop using Darn Pandas they failed at our local zoo made new enclosure etc now there in debt up to their eyeballs Hmmmm looks like Blizz isnt going to rake in the proffits next year just with subscriptions are they.

  29. Jiggywiggly
    November 6, 2011

    Who cares?

    I gave up MMO’s anyway. How many times can you kill X wolves for Y rewards? It gets stale in the end no matter what game you play. I went back to single player games and some multiplayer shooter games. I find I get just as much enjoyment from those games and I do not have to pay an additional fee on top of the developed content.

    Now, with that said. I was highly addicted to MMO’s until recently. World of Warcraft was a fun MMO for the time that I did spend on it. However, we all know that the whole carrot on a stick bit is losing ground, and the whole MMO scene is stale with the WoW cloning syndrome.

    For you teenagers out there, enjoy it. Keep in mind though, you will have to grow up eventually and that life is far more important to tackle than your next tier of gear.

  30. Hugh Hancock
    November 7, 2011

    @Jiggywiggly – I can totally see your points in the first three paragraphs. Whilst MMOs have become better at quest design recently, the overall game model is starting to get stale, and it’s showing. Hopefully upcoming games like The Secret World and Guild Wars 2 will shake things up a bit.

    I don’t think there’s any need to insult the people (like me, to a certain extent) who do still enjoy them, though. And even a little reading around will tell you that there’s no correlation between enjoyment of MMOs and age!

  31. ThoughtsFromAbove
    November 8, 2011

    Truth be told… We need a game to break the mold.

    It feels like game developers are attacking a prot spec’d behemoth (Blizzard’s wow franchise) with tunnel vision (aka they see wow and try to beat it at it’s own game time and time again)

    the truth of the matter is many of these games compete with wow as far as gameplay and some go further. But the BIGGEST element in a games survival and enjoyment is it’s player population imo. people leave wow to try other games through a revolving door… i’ve done it myself countless times but when the other games end up being so similar… i find myself crawling back to where people actually play.

    We need something new, but it’s hard to have the courage as a developer to take that stab, when defeat is obvious and swift if the game doesn’t take hold immediately (which is almost a requirement with competition these days. Sadly no game is perfect off the bat and usually takes months to really mesh with it’s player base… and WoW really takes advantage of that.)

    As for this expansion if it comes out late 2012… I personally might be done with the game. I’ve had an excellent run and can say i’ve played the game more than any other game i’ve ever owned (which is sad considering i don’t consider it my favorite game of all time lol) That’s just too long of a wait considering i’m at about 20% interest level of the game compared to the good ol days.

    i might agree with the people who consider that perhaps these two expansions were built back to back and split. I sense it will arrive sooner than predicted as we aren’t getting 2 major zones completely overhauled and what not, this time around.

    I’m also somewhat hoping blizzard had the foresight to see the “they’re chaining me in for a year subscription to make me wait forever with no content” and turn it around on those complaining by releasing it in a decent time: to prove their worth and maybe bolster trust… this may be a long shot but i think it would be even more effective than the prediction of being greedy.

  32. Graak
    November 24, 2011

    Um im sorry but wtf are you on about “content drought”? Done with the game? That is noob you really want to just kill the biggest baddest dragon in the game in two months, stick it on farm for two months and then have the game change completely with dumbed down mechanics in Q fucking 2!!!! What is wrong with you? Deathwing is the aspect of DEATH the raid, its tier, the moving to heroic modes should be the challenge for well over 6 months if it is to serve any credit to the purpose of WOW. Go buy a WII and look for cutesy there but any sane person doesnt want Deathwing to be Grey content in a dozen weeks (thats 12 lock outs… fun fun fun if you get one piece a lockout you can be geared just in time for it to be irrelevant)

    4.3 isnt even out yet! I actually cant believe what you are saying here..

  33. Graak
    November 24, 2011

    QUOTE: Goodmongo October 24, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    “4) I think Blizz is banking on making Deathwing pretty hard. In other words it might take 5 or 6 months for the average guild to kill it. So we are talking about may before you see any real numbers of guilds killing DW. Then the beta starts in late June which leads me to #5.”

    YES THAT IS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. LET DEATHWING BE THE GAME OF WOW FOR A SOLID 9-12 MONTHS FOR THE LOVE OF GOD ITS DEATHWING HE SHOULD BE FREAKISHLY HARD AND HEROICS SHOULD BE NIGH IMPOSSIBLE UNTIL EVERYONE HAS ALMOST EVERY T13 BEST IN SLOT then only can they produce the stats for heroics. Can we not cheapen patch 4.3 just to zomgrush to pandas? I loved that about 3.3, it was august when there was enough general popluation to pug heroic 25 marrowgar (note to self go get Bryntroll again for transmog). 3.3 was a long road and had a sense of epicness to it beacause of that feeling of a long journey. PLus without reforging you would aspire for specific pieces even if you already had a 264 in that slot. XOX

  34. Graak
    November 24, 2011

    I mean go back and watch the opening cinematic high and then tell me honestly look me in the eye and tell me you want to move past Deathwing by may or you will get bored… ok im done sorry but you made me mad

  35. Nassindra
    November 29, 2011

    Blizzard always delivers what is promised even if it takes them more time than expected we will all be kung phu fighting in 2012 at some point or anouther.

  36. funkydisco
    January 15, 2012

    @El – actually dude, you can buy the quest items rewarding 10prize tokens each at the a.h for around 100 – 200g. i just bought myself the full plate armour decorative set and i have only been to darkmoon fair once in my gaming experience.

  37. Connor Hagen
    March 7, 2012

    I honestly don’t know. It does seem like WoW is starting to be geared toward the younger audiences. But this is somewhat what the have to do to keep on top of subs. If they don’t, it will stay a mostly adult type of game, with nobody new to fill that spot when the older people get to the point where their daily lives and jobs keep them away from the game. Also, you never know what’s going to happen wit MoP. We have almost nothing announced. I kinda like that feeling… not knowing what’s going to happen with the game. You never know… it could be the most challenging expantion yet! With a few easy spots in between for the little kids that NEED to have it easy. And i also thing that it’s kinda stupid that kids need to have it easy. Look, isn’t little kid gaming sometimes challenging for them? And don’t they like it? If they were a true gamer they would like it. But like I said before, this is a type of game for the late teenager to adult type people, not little kids.

  38. Steve
    April 3, 2012

    Why are you on a WoW forum…if you have no desire to play the game? Lol, you’ll come crawling back soon enough my friend, the haters like you…just server transfer and wipe your realID and nobody will know…well I know.

  39. Theodor
    April 12, 2012

    Hello people I’ve been watching your comments all this time.So I want to share my ideas with you.

    First of all I think Blizzard will release MoP early in June.Thats because a lot of WOW fans come active in summer.With the new expension I personally think more people will become active.So most of those people who bought subscriptions will also buy the game.So blizzard would benefit more money than ,releasing MoP in September or later.That is based on:Less people will be active during that time.So less copies of MoP will be sold.

    Secondly I personally think that there are people who are waiting for summer to buy both subscriptions and copies of MoP including myself.

    That means we have higher chances for MoP to be released out in June or July.

    All in all the choice is Blizzards so we have to respect that and wait.By the way I’m a big fan of WOW I thought that Cataclysm wasn’t so good but i ended up myself buying a copie of it and a subscription as well

  40. EzeeKnight
    April 12, 2012

    I personally think that i can feel another ruby sanctum coming before the release of Mist of Panderia which might subdue the masses pining for the release of the new expansion.

    Xmas 2012 is my bet

  41. Mike
    April 13, 2012

    Well here we are on the pre-release of Diablo3 just a month an half away. That will keep a large majority of WoW and Diablo fanboys busy lvln’g their Diablo chars then, I figure, in 4Q Bliz will release MoP. It’s always fun to speculate when a new X-pac will be released.

    As for me I’m and ole Vanilla WoW’r and yes I do miss the old days but I still enjoy a good BG every now and than or Hero run with guildies. Like most I never really left WoW even after Conan, War, etc. Some day my time will come were I hang my Azaroth hat but for now I still enjoy forgetting the outside world for a bit.

  42. Morgan
    July 28, 2012

    TBC and Wrath were released on January 15, 2007 and November 12, 2008 respectively. That is only 668 days. Two years is 365 * 2 or 730 days. Last time I checked 668 days is LESS THAN 730 days.

    Blizzard gave us September 25 but that is only five days from 4Q (October 1) so Blizzard did cut it a little close. But this raises the question are they still going to go with the two week lead in or make that longer.

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