Fire No Longer Quite As Hot – the Firelands Nerf Reactions

by on September 21, 2011


I said on Twitter yesterday that today’s post would be about the WoW Firelands nerfs, and I wasn’t wrong. Everyone, it seems, has been out raiding, and it’s very interesting to hear just how far-reaching – or not – the nerfs have been:

  • Marks 365 has given us a boss-by-boss breakdown of the nerfs“Riplimb and Rageface drop like rocks, so does Shannox. You’ll have to watch your timing on how fast your DPS is going. We had to move DPS off of Shannox when we were burning the other dog just to prevent the enrage from happening early.”
  • Righteous Defence is having 30% ICC flashbacks“In the lead up to the fight, we were figuring out what to do while missing one raid cooldown that we usually had, when I pointed out that the whole damn raid now has a 25% Divine Guardian up the entire time thanks to the nerfs.”
  • Kurn feels that normal modes, for a group that’s completed them already, are now completely ridiculous“So we had a “fun” raid night with good spirits and good moods, for the most part, but it feels weird. The Rhyolith kill doesn’t feel hard-fought. The hardest part on Alysrazor was NOT killing her faster.”
  • And Looking For More decided to have a go at FL with an undergeared group, and found that for them, Firelands was still somewhat of a challenge“So basically, the nerf meant a group that had no business being there could kill the easiest boss, after a few fails. But it wasn’t a total pushover”

How have you found the post-nerf Firelands? Easy or not too bad?
All quotes taken directly from their respective posts.

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{ 10 comments… read them below or add one }

Arazu September 21, 2011 at 9:40 pm

I’ll cross-post something I wrote elsewhere, that really captured my disgust. The changes to heroic are completely baffling.

It comes down to the difference between what an “average raid” is, and what our raids actually are. It’s true that heroic mode success rates weren’t quite what Blizzard wanted them to be, but even casual guilds like mine cut through 6/7H with no trouble at all.

Now? Heroic FL is so easy that it’s completely comical. Alysrazor dead in less than one cycle, with no legendary staffs. What’s supposed to be the longest fight in the zone, dead in 5 minutes. Heroic Bale, which used to require 7 dps? Can now be done with five. Bethtilac, the horrible damage nightmare where everything hurts? Is now normal mode with a little extra gimmick. We killed normal mode on the first attempt in the first week, without even knowing the fight. Shouldn’t heroic mode be a little harder than that?

Heroic FL got completely savaged and there’s still 2-3 months left in the tier. The large portion of guilds that were already 6/7H are stunned at how gutted the place is. They’re not small, “this will help more people win” adjustments, they’re gigantic “let’s bring our alts in blues next week to clear heroic” slashes. Meanwhile, we get to farm this for another few months with not really much else to do. We plan to get our 6/7H clear down from 3 hours to 45 minutes. That’s about it.

It seems insane to think that the first six could all be killed in under an hour, but with heroic alys now a FIVE minute fight, I think it’s quite possible.

Cataclysm has had some really incredible raid content, the best I’ve ever done and I’ve been raiding for 12 years. Firelands is fun, it’s probably still going to be fun for a lot of people after these nerfs. But hundreds of guilds out there think the magnitude of the nerfs are a little bit stupid. Multiple guilds on my realm that were 4/7 or 3/7 heroic pre-nerf (just two days ago) are now 6/7H. After one night. Having never even tried the fights before on heroic. Word?

Reply

Zenfnord September 21, 2011 at 9:57 pm

Said it before and I’ll say it again.

The Q3 investors call is next week, and Blizzard has lost subscribers the past 2 Quarters.

That’s the only explanation you need for why these nerfs happened when they did, instead of when 4.3 drops.

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Andrew September 21, 2011 at 11:27 pm

@Arazu – 6/7 H, pre-patch was considered casual? Either you have some beastly teammates, or we have very different definitions of casual. If that is your benchmark for casual than the best guilds on my server were still “casual” despite raiding 4 days a week, totaling 16+ hours.

Generally, a casual guild raids twice a week, for 2-3.5 hours a raidnight. They raid 10 man, they may only have 5-8 consistent players on a given night, and they might have to pug a few, or join with another small/casual guild. They arn’t terrible, but still lack refinement and are lucky if they reach rag, let alone down him in normal.

My guild was 2/7 heroic pre-patch and we were similar to what i described above. We did have a very strong core group of 8-9 people, so we fortunately rarely pugged any. We only raided twice a week for 3 hours a night. We were top 5 alliance progression on our server, despite raiding less than other guilds.

I’m not trying to say you are *wrong* but that your perspective for what is casual and what is hardcore may be off. There is a middle ground. You even admit that Blizzard didn’t see the progress they wanted on hardmodes…but how can that be the case if any “casual” guild can go 6 of 7?

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Arazu September 22, 2011 at 1:29 am

6/7H isn’t necessarily casual, but there are guilds out there that are 6/7H without raiding over 6-10 hours per week. I raided FIFTY hours a week for seven years, that’s hardcore. There are now guilds out there that are 7/7H without raiding above 12 hours a week, 12 is fairly casual.

My current guild raids a casual schedule. We’ve been 6/7H for about 5 weeks.

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Paul September 22, 2011 at 2:39 am

The Q3 investors call is next week,

Q3 ends next week, but the Q3 call isn’t until November. They need time to pull together and verify all the numbers.

Having said that, they probably have a good idea of where subs are going to be by the end of next week, and I doubt it’s very pretty.

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Imakulata September 22, 2011 at 10:05 am

12 hours is about 2 h 25 m if you raid every working day or 4 hours 3 days, I wouldn’t call that casual, unless the average attendance is low (i. e. about 50% or less).

Also, there is a difference between farm bosses and progress bosses. I would say that most people will find farm bosses “gutted” because they already know the tactics well but the progress bosses will be “easier but still challenging” as people are more likely to make mistakes (even grave ones) because they don’t know the tactics well yet. (This mirrors my experience from our guild’s raid yesterday.)

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Goodmongo September 22, 2011 at 2:34 pm

So if I undersand this right people used to take 6-12 hours to get the 6 or 7 kills.  Aftter the nerf it only takes 1-3 hours.  This then caused some to get very upset.  So having MORE free time gets people mad?  Are they so loney or have so little in their life that they NEED the 12 hours and up to FIFITY hours like it was?

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Hugh Hancock September 22, 2011 at 3:41 pm

@Goodmongo – You’ve got an interesting point, but I’m not sure you needed to add the “loney (sic) or have so little in their life” aside.

I’d hoped that these days we might have gotten past the “hardcore raiders have no life” stereotype – just because someone likes putting 12 hours or more a week into a hobby doesn’t mean they don’t have a full and interesting life.

I know people who put 12.5+ hours a week into MMOs, roleplaying games, computer games in general, golf, martial arts, climbing, writing their first novel, and lots of other things. If the challenge and interest afforded to any of them was suddenly taken away – if my golfer friend suddenly discovered all the local courses had been trivialised, for example – I imagine they’d be quite annoyed.

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Arazu September 22, 2011 at 9:26 pm

Originally Posted By Imakulata12 hours is about 2 h 25 m if you raid every working day or 4 hours 3 days, I wouldn’t call that casual, unless the average attendance is low (i. e. about 50% or less).

Also, there is a difference between farm bosses and progress bosses. I would say that most people will find farm bosses “gutted” because they already know the tactics well but the progress bosses will be “easier but still challenging” as people are more likely to make mistakes (even grave ones) because they don’t know the tactics well yet. (This mirrors my experience from our guild’s raid yesterday.)

Call it whatever you want, when we raid less than a quarter of what actual hardcore guilds do (less than an eighth, for serious guilds pushing top ranks during progression), we ourselves are not hardcore. At all. Our average attendance is also in the 70% region, which is terribly unimpressive.

And the complaints about gutted bosses aren’t just about farm content. Dozens and dozens and dozens of guilds that were 2/7 or 3/7 last week are now 6/7, their progression bosses dead in as little as 3-8 pulls. Most guilds don’t kill a normal mode progression boss in 8 pulls, what the hell is that. These same guilds that went in on Tuesday and killed 2 or 3 or -four- progression heroic bosses in a single night, for the most part, are as unhappy about the changes as we are. They went in, completely murdered the nerfed zone, and were like ‘Oh. Wait, THREE MORE MONTHS?’

I play MMOs in order to raid. The idea that I’ll now suddenly have more free time, as if raiding is a chore that I MUST get over with every week as quickly as possible so I can go on to do something fun, is wrong. Raiding is the fun. 6/7H was already far too quick when it took us 3 hours each week to cut through, now that it’s down to an hour there’s hardly any time to even have any fun. Good thing I enjoy heroic Ragnaros, several people in my raid don’t enjoy that fight at all, now those people get to have zero fun per week. For three more months. Good game.

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