Are 25 man Raids Suffering In Cataclysm?

by on January 27, 2011


Now, I’m a 10 man raider. My only forrays into 25s were PUGing them in Wrath and it was rarely a pretty picture. Give me a small, tight-knit group to kill my goons with, thanks. But I know other people feel the opposite to me, and that folks who prefer 25 mans are worried the larger raid format isn’t long for the world… of Warcraft.

Larisa’s got a heartfelt piece on whether 25 mans are on their way out. She starts off with several down-to-earth disclaimers which boil down to the fact that we can’t really judge 25 mans’ longevity yet as we haven’t played through enough of the Cataclysm to see full results. Even so, she goes on to say that she’s worried, as a member of a hardcore and well respected 25 man guild on her server.

The other night our officers set a date. If we can’t fill our vacancies before March 1, so we’re sure that we can pull off every raid and progress as planned, we will no more be a 25 man guild, but a 10 man guild spotting only one team, and the roster will be cut down accordingly.

No one wants it to happen and everyone’s prepared to do whatever they can to help out recruiting. Hopefully Adrenaline won’t become one of the victims of the 25 man raiding death of Cataclysm. But there’s no guarantee we’ll succeed.

Larisa points to a post by Gavendo who says that guilds like the world-class guild Paragon are sailing through as a 25 man, no problems. But Larisa’s right: most guilds are not Paragon. Very few 25 mans play on Paragon’s level – and Larisa says on her level, things are looking worse for wear. She wonders whether we’re really seeing people give up on the larger groupsize due to no extra shinies, glory or prestige now 25 and 10 mans give the same rewards. Time will tell, but my sympathies to any 25 mans in this difficult situation.

What about you – are you in a 25 man that’s struggling? Or a 10 man that’s finding you’re full of new applicants while you see 25 man groups on your server fail?

Quote taken directly from Larisa’s post
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{ 3 comments… read them below or add one }

Larísa January 27, 2011 at 6:58 pm

Small correction: I’m not an officer. Just an ordinary foot soldier and raider. But cheers for linklove!

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Ttrinity January 27, 2011 at 7:02 pm

We were teetering on 25 man raiding at the end of WoTLK. Two things changed us to multiple 10s group now:
 
1. Filling the roster each week meant pugs due to schedules of folks in guild.
2. Guild system for points and credits for all guild runs penalizes ‘on the edge of 25″ for pugging empty spots
3. Loot is the same. Why struggle?
We are about on target running 2 diff groups of 10s each week now and have been running one for a couple of weeks. Is the the demise of the 25 man. Makes me wonder, too.

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Bill January 27, 2011 at 7:05 pm

Raids used to 40 man affairs.  30 good people, 10 potential dead weight.  Then BC hit and not only did raids get knocked down to 25, but required guilds to split into 10s along the way.  In Wrath, because of the way gear and lockouts worked, people either felt 10s were gimping them because of lower level gear or they had to run 10s at the same time to increase their practice for 25s and get achievements.
I think Catalcysm, like other things in the expansion, has found a good balance.  4 levels of raiding (10/25, normal/heroic), 2 levels of gear (normal/heroic) and 2 levels of raid organization (10/25).  I think a big reason people think that 25s are being moved away from because 10s are on the same footing gear-wise, and guilds are now using levels of organization and size of raid team to make the determination.
I think what is really suffering is raiding in general.  The normal dungeon > heroic dungeon > normal raid > heroic raid progression has moved the needle more towards BC.  People need to gear up in heroics to get started raiding.  However,  the gear progression is more wrath like: rep for normal and heroic level gear, dailies and tabards for gaining that rep, 2 levels of badge gear.  The BoP orb for crafting is a hold over from BC.
It feels like Blizzard gave people what they asked for.  Doing more to keep complete morons from facerolling their way into raids and epic gear, and instead landed them in heroics.   But, by doing that did they slow down the less than hardcore, but otherwise competent, raiders so much that they’d rather quit than gear up in heroics among the aforementioned complete morons?

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