Roundup: Reactions And Thoughts On The Healer, Tanks, DPS In Groups Debate

by on November 18, 2010

…Right. So today the blogosphere’s lit up with a range of posts on roughly the same topic after Tamarind’s post from yesterday, where he talks about the LFD system dehumanising us, how much effort we expect from strangers, and how DPS are disempowered and none of us should be okay with this.

A chunky post.

Some of today’s posts are responses to it, some of them look to be happy coincidences. Some of them are about the LFD system: some of them are about the tank/DPS/healer roles. But they all share a common feature. They’re about being part of a group. So, rather than picking and choosing one to stick a seal of epicness on and present you with, I’m rounding them all up, nodding my approval and letting you choose which opinions on the topic strike the most epic chord with you.

  • Shut Up And Follow The Tank: Analogue over at Looking For More says that both healers and DPS should be happy to follow the tank blindly in an instance. Wait, before you get the pitchforks out, go read why. Her post is very grounded. It’s from her point of view of both a healer talking to DPSers and as her recent experience being a DPS in a group where things went a bit haywire (largely because of a nitwibbler of a tank).
  • For good or evil… the LFD tool…: Lady Erinia over at Moments in the Life of a DK is casting her eye back over her WoW career and comparing the times when LFD wasn’t around to now. She says her gaming experience has really changed since LFD turned up and I’d reckon she’s not the only player who’s found that. I wonder how many of us are in similar shoes to Lady E?
  • LFD: How To Fit In: Jasyla of Cannot Be Tamed has a hilarious recount of the worst possible behaviours of any role in a group and needless to say is just what is worst about the dungeon finder and we shouldn’t do. Brilliant, tongue in cheek, and had me laughing out loud. I’m pretty sure we’ve all seen most of the things on her list and maybe even done a few ourselves. Still, keeps the topic at hand lighthearted and fun.
  • A Quick Note and I Am A Damage Dealer: our resident pancake lover Traxy and Vidyala over at Manalicious are both coming to the same conclusion but in very different styles. They’re picking up on Tamarind’s point that DPSers shouldn’t be treated as “less” equal to tanks and healers in a group, and are both saying that DPS should take pride in themselves. Vidyala is very obviously proud of herself and the role of DPS, when she or others do it well and say that DPS should be proud of each other, too. Traxy, on the other hand, wishes she saw that kind of attitude more. Either way – gogo, DPSers.
  • Ancient roles, and non-negotiation in instance groups part 2: Spinks of Welcome to Spinksville has some brief thoughts on traditional roles as handed down from older games and how they interact with the ideal of everyone being able to express him or herself in a group setting. I was more convinced by the first half of her post than the latter, but the whole thing’s an interesting read and something I’d not considered in this debate yet.

That’s all on the topic – hopefully something’s grabbed your attention. Someone’s mentioned it’s no surprise this topic’s come up in the last days of the pre Cata lull and we’ll move on from it as soon as Cata hits. That’s quite true, though LFD probably isn’t going anywhere.

What do you think – are LFD and role ideals going to adapt with us to the new game, or is LFD going to be a worse place in Cataclysm?

You can find…

  • Looking For More’s homepage here
  • Moments In The Life of a DK’s homepage here
  • Cannot Be Tamed’s homepage here
  • I Like Pancakes’ homepage here
  • Manalicious’ homepage here
  • Welcome to Spinksville’s homepage here

If you enjoyed this article, check out our other posts from these categories: World of Warcraft

{ 5 comments… read them below or add one }

Lady Erinia November 18, 2010 at 10:19 pm

oooh! thanks for the link. I actually wrote my post before I read Tam’s! Great minds think alike eh?


Snack November 19, 2010 at 1:40 am

Over all, reading all of these, the big point that needs to be addressed is a sense of respect for our fellow players – or, rather, the lack of respect we have for each other now with the LFD tool. It’s akin to a “one night stand” of a dungeon run, where you’ll probably never see the people in your group ever again, so “who cares about treating each other right?” It just violates Wheaton’s Law, I tell you!


Hugh Hancock November 19, 2010 at 11:37 am

The problem, as several people have pointed out, is that that behaviour is inherant in the system. Practically speaking, it’s not going to be easy to change without actual code-level changes to how the Dungeon Finder works. (And as we discussed on Saturday, there may be reasons why that won’t happen).


Rebecca Judd November 19, 2010 at 12:57 pm

@Lady Erinia – no worries! Nice timing then :)

General thoughts: There’s an idea going round that the dungeon finder could be altered so that when you sign up for a dungeon you can choose what ‘type’ of group you’re wanting. So if you’re wanting a fast gogo run, you can choose “fast” and if you’re wanting a more relaxed pace you can choose “relaxed”. There are also suggestions to mix the options up so you can also choose if you want a full run or not, and maybe choose what gear-range of people you want.

I don’t know where these ideas started (I’ve been reading about them on and off and they’re popular, so hard to track. Feel free to claim them as your own/ cite the original author, folks) but they’re good ideas. They’re not the same, and don’t go as far as an extended friends list system would – and I’d still prefer to see that. But these ideas are a huge step in the right direction.

Though yes, as Hugh’s reminded us and Adanos pointed out on Saturday, the ramifications of adding such options to the dungeon finder would probably make it hard to code.


Traxy November 19, 2010 at 7:25 pm

I really think that the dungeon finder system will basically break come Cata. One of the things about the current system is that the dungeons really are very easy; whether that’s a benefit or a detriment is up to you. Tanks can afford to be careless on pulls, healers have a broad leeway as to healing and dps can be either lazy or reckless at their choice, all without really endangering the success of the run. In Cata, I believe Blizzard has promised that these things will be different; groups will wipe if DPS don’t know how to CC properly, tanks won’t survive pulls unless healers are on top of their game, and tanks who pull when the healer is low on mana will wipe the group. Beyond that, there is likely to be a level of coordination required beyond targeting order that you just don’t see in current dungeons. My prediction is that a lot of the dps I’ve had the misfortune of running with simply won’t be able to complete instances, as they will wipe the group repeatedly and be kicked.
On my part I plan to focus on guild-only runs for a while, avoiding the LFD tool in preference to running with people I know, trust, and can talk to. I’m betting that most competent players will avoid LFD, partly because they don’t want to chance getting in with an incompetent player, and partly because organized runs will just be much more pleasant.
When 4.2.0 or 4.3.0 comes out and everyone’s been running the Cata instances for months, LFD will likely make a comeback. But I don’t see it as a popular tool in Cata.


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